Apologies for the absence – I’m been busy / away / unwell / take your pick. I just have worn myself out and can’t stand the state of the world and feel very sad that the gunman in Pennsylvania missed by a whisker. Trump depresses the hell out of me, even though it should not affect us here at all, the media still push him down our throats 24/7.
Not quite sure what to do with the Eye of the Fish, and so I’m calling for new contributors, or someone else to take it over – email us at contact @ eyeofthefish.org or just post a comment here if you want.
Now, back to business, for now anyway. What on earth is going on with this H1 malarkey? It appears that our new Minister Chris Penk, who has a refreshingly open mind around his portfolio, and willingly listens to people in the business, has perhaps had too much of an open mind. He has clearly been nobbled by some volume-house-builders in Tauranga, who have bent his ear and made him take seriously their comments that NZ’s new revised H1 insulation standards are somehow onerous and too high.
Oh dear Right Honourable Christopher Penk – periscope down, you are under attack by house-trolls! Someone is pulling your leg! NZ’s standards are still lower than the rest of the world – and the rest of the world is not complaining of over-heating – so it is clear that H1 is not actually the problem. Yes, we are coming off a low base, of being the absolutely worst / lowest building code standards in the world (for a “developed” nation), so of course any big improvement in roof insulation from R=3 to R=6.6 will have a big effect. Our wall insulation increased from R=1.9 to R=2.0 (from memory) so that will have had hardly any effect. And windows have increased from single glazing to double glazing and from crappy all-aluminium frames to slightly less crappy thermally-broken window frames, but regardless, remember that the window is ALWAYS going to be the weakest link in your building envelope.
Clearly the rest of the equation needs to be spelled out in big bold letters to the builders and designers out there – its not just about the Insulation. Everything is connected. People complaining that their house is too warm in summer are missing the point – it shows that previously most of the heat in a house was just going straight up and out through the roof, and that is clearly a waste of energy. Insulation is a two-way street, so to speak, and so during summer the new increased R=6.6 insulation should be stopping the house from gaining too much heat from the sun, as well as stopping it from losing too much heat at night. So what is the rest of the equation then, smarty-pants?
Its the whole package. It is the design of the rest of the envelope – walls, windows, thicknesses, layers, performance etc, but also the actual running / optimising the performance of the house itself. Key amongst these points are Ventilation systems – from as basic as “if it is too hot then open a window” to the much better “install a decent ventilation heat exchanger system from day 1”. That will have the effect of lowering electrical bills for years to come, and a smooth-running home with no asthma or whooping cough etc, but admittedly, there is an up-front cost for a decent ventilation system of $10-20k.
But it is also the design of windows within the window walls. We’ve got into the habit of having mammoth sized glazing panes in massive ranch sliders, instead of just having a window. That may work fine if you have a bach in Waiheke with stunning views worthy of Phil Spencer, but are mostly totally inappropriate in inner-city Wellington. As windows are the weak point, make a smaller weak point!! And the build up of the actual wall is so important too – no more 95mm studs on external walls with just building paper and Gib! We must do better than that!
We made a change in H1 and that was a step forward. Now is not a time to step backward into the damp, dark ages. Now is the time to complete the rest of the journey! Hold fast Chris Penk – I’m coming to see you! The rest of you – your thoughts and comments?
“from as basic as “if it is too hot then open a window”
That’s part of the problem.,,
The safety from falling regs (F4) are seeing new builds defaulting to being built with 100mm window restrictors
(esp in bedrooms) , to comply with 2.1.1
2.1.1 In housing and areas of other buildings likely to be frequented by children under 6 years of age, a window with an opening width of less than 1000 mm shall have either:
a) the lower edge of the opening at least 760 mm above floor level, or
b) a restrictor fitted to limit the maximum opening so that a 100 mm diameter sphere cannot pass through it, or
https://www.building.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/building-code-compliance/f-safety-of-users/f4-safety-from-falling/asvm/f4-safety-from-falling-3rd-edition-amendment2.pdf
When you combine that with 3 story townhouses you are basically building a solar heat trap with residents leaving for work in the morning, returning in the evening and finding the heat generated from the larger windows in the living rooms at the bottom of the house rising during the day.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/homeowners-hit-with-soaring-bills-as-they-struggle-to-cool-new-auckland-townhouses/WNZUNIKQFNATJMESN3QJRFZCAM/
Basically they need to include some thermal gain calcs in their design, but as with all things that’s costs $$$
Those width restrictor regs are out of control – another argument against top-hung windows. Install side-hung windows all the time! Huge advantage to getting air into a room, all day long. Its a simple fix people!
I think that those European uPVC windows & doors that can be either top-opening or side-opening would be preferable. Double-glazed, thermal barrier, what’s not to like?
trouble is, I’ve never seen them for sale in NZ. Do you know of a supplier Mr Filth?
Would any of these fit the bill Nemo?
https://www.neuffer-windows.co.nz/tilt-and-turn-windows.php
https://www.eurowindows.co.nz/products_tilt&turn.html
https://homerit.co.nz/products/window-styles/tilt-and-turn-window/
Yet more points against these skinny three storey terrace houses that are popping up everywhere. Other points against inaccessible for older people, or little people learning to walk, many flights of stairs for little kids to fall down, usually no toilet on the living level. I know a couple in Chch with a baby who had to abandon the master suite on level three as they otherwise had to go down two flights of stairs to attend to the baby in the other bedroom. I understand all the arguments about horizontal apartments costing more and being out of the comfort zone of NZ builders skills but properly built they seem to offer far better quality of life for almost all potential residents.
I would also argue that body corporates are outside of the comfort zone of future occupants, and townhouses can be built without body corporate.
And they seem to work just fine overseas.
Agreed. Part of the fault therefore is the very dodgy piece of legislation called the Unit Titles Act. I don’t spend much time reading Acts of Parliament, but the UTA is a real dog. Rip it up and start again. Such a badly written piece of legislation.
The Herald headline has Penk saying some houses are too hot in winter, seems hard to believe. The occupants must not know how to open a window. The only complaint I had heard previously re the building code was a homeowner in Coromandel whose design included a concrete pad on the northern side intended to serve as a heat sink. They felt double glazing reduced the ability of the interior concrete floor to soak up heat on sunny winter days. If I was renovating again or building I would put in a lot more insulation as I now understand NZ’s minimum standards were minimums and sold us short. In an old wooden house, I am a big believer in curtains. Quality drapes to the floor with insulated lining which you close before the sun goes down in winter, or as soon as the sun comes in in summer, make a huge difference
Thermal mass storage is also important – and how to manage that is vital. Need to be able to open the building up at night to let heat escape, and thus get thermal mass cooling.
Julienz – yes, agreed, on all your points. Curtains are, after all, just a lightweight movable form of flexible insulation barrier. Only thing better is an external insulated shutter – which Europeans have been using for about a thousand years (think Venice) or more recently electric roller shutters (everywhere in Northern Germany and Scandinavia).
Here’s a video about awnings just to rub that point in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhbDfi7Ee7k
Somehow builders or architects lost all knowledge that existed 100 years ago.
Really interesting video, Roeland. Thanks for sharing. I loved the reference to “old fuddy duddies.” I think I might be on the cusp of becoming one. Interesting that the presenter reinforced the point that the better the double glazing the less solar gain is available in winter. Surely relevant to the NZ climate.
Some serious dog-wagging from Tail Incorporated going on here.
This makes absolute no sense at all.
Agree – too hot in winter? Open a window!
We missed you Nemo!
Thanks. I guess that part of the problem is people just trying to cool their houses with the heat pump on, and so all the windows have to be closed. But yes, answer is Open those damn windows! Def should not be over-heating.
“Insulation cost ‘relatively small’ for standard home”
RNZ – https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/522432/insulation-cost-relatively-small-for-standard-home
“Renters advocates and a builders association say the potential retraction of new insulation standards is a backwards step for the country. The government has announced it wants to roll back insulation standards that came into force last year saying it adds between $40,000 to $50,000 to the cost of a new home.
“Upgrades to insulation and glazing requirements in May 2023, known as H1 standards were the first significant improvements to insulation standards in New Zealand in more than a decade. Building and Construction minister Chris Penk told Checkpoint new houses could include costs of $40,000 to $50,000 extra depending on the insulation standard they were held to, and after listening to what people wanted, he believed there should be more choice because of the need for affordable houses.
“Certified Builders chief executive Malcolm Fleming said the organisation was surprised to hear the government was considering a roll-back of the standards and it did not support such a move, given the changes had made New Zealand’s homes more liveable and sustainable.”
“Building costs in New Zealand were too high, which stifled demand, so the industry understood the drive to reduce them, he said.
“But New Zealand’s insulation regulations remained below international standards and Fleming said the industry had been supportive of changes to improve them.
“Fleming said talking to some of the organisation’s 2350 members, it appeared the H1 standard added between $10,000 to $20,000 in costs for a standard home. Costs of $40,000 to $50,000 were more likely on a home that was worth $2 to $3 million, he said.”
This just in, which will be a real test of the issues:
“NZDF’s $490m housing plan for Waiouru military camp”
“The New Zealand Defence Force is moving ahead with a $490 million expansion and upgrade of housing at its military training base in Waiouru. The first $75m stage of the project will build 50 new homes for military families on newly developed land in partnership with local iwi Ngāti Rangi.
The Defence Force (NZDF) says it needs 211 homes to support military and civilian personnel at the Waiouru Military Camp. It plans to modernise a further 161 homes in a second stage.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350344722/nzdfs-490m-housing-plan-waiouru-military-camp?
Curiously, the sum of $75million divided by 50 homes = a staggering $1.5million per house. I know we want our military to be warm and dry in a very cold climate up there, but something has gone seriously awry here. Are they paying $1m per section to Ngāti Rangi and then a half mill per actual house build? Or is it all going on the house build? Either way, it is a total rort. I presume that these houses must be for the very highest echelon of the Army, cos it we are going to spend one and a half million on every house for every squaddie, then we might end up with an Army of about 50 people tops, which I am pretty sure would not stop an invading China or marauding ‘Murica.
More sums: the stated total of $490 million, spread over 211 homes = $2.32million per house
…and even if we combine the 211 homes and the further 161 homes, this still = over $1.3mill per home.
Something here is VERY FISHY and definitely Un Affordable. Property in Waiuru is dirt cheap last time I looked, because no one wants to live there. Basically it is just a Petrol Station and a Museum, plus Army folk.
How does the NZ Government manage to screw up every single thing it tries to do?
Anyway – let’s see if we can find out who has the contract for the work, and what the insulation spec is !
Out of idle curiosity, how much of that million-and-a-half bucks per house is taken up by buying and setting up the land and associated infrastructure (drains, water, power, roads, street lights, all that jazz)? Any ideas?
I’d have thought that the Defence Force would be building on their own land, but hey, who knows in these days of asset sales and public-private partnerships?
I have read somewhere recently that the completed land package makes up approx 50% of the total cost. That would presumably include the actual land, as well as the development costs – water, sewerage, electricity, roading, etc. Even so, spending $750k for an Army house in Waiuru seems totally wrong. Army should build them themselves, for $200k each. $300k absolute tops. No way it should get to $750k or $1.5million !!
Back in the 90s at the housemovers we were trucking houses out of Waiouru as there were excess unwanted
Plus ca change..
C’mon Nemo, you don’t have to go
Besides the fact that I’ll miss you, you know that Harris is gonna get every woman in the States riled up about abortion and the Orange One will get buried
It will be a fun time as the oaf with the AR15 earpiercing gets washed away in an oestregen tide
Also, what about concrete houses?
https://productnews.com.au/aug12/sefar-architectural-vision
Or ancient Persian/Egyptian windcatchers? – fuck knows it’s windy enough here
https://99percentinvisible.org/article/windcatchers/
Oh 60, I do so love your unbridled optimism for the future, and your way with words ! I’m surprised that the MAGA right have not taken their faux ear-wrappings to the logical conclusion and shot each other’s ears off. That would be good to see.
OK – I’ll see what I can do. Will stay on a bit longer.
Nemo – agree or disagree – always thank you for facilitating a place for informed civil discussion.
I’m really interested in hearing more of that informed comment on H1.
In my new role I’ve made a point of hearing from building firms. Lot of love for the 60sq metre (‘Granny Flat), more flexibility about building materials, and reducing some of the unnecessary (as opposed to necessary consenting costs.
If we are going to reduce the cost of housing – we actually have to reduce the cost of building houses. Higher interest rates have reduced the value of existing houses – but quite clearly had a major chilling effect on the ability to build new houses – important to fix housing shortages. One construction firm bluntly told me it costs more to build than to buy an equivalent existing home – so logically people buy existing – rather than adding to housing stock. So reducing cost is ultimately important. (essential)
H1 is important in that too. It’s not fair to compare our uninsulated older stock with pre H1 fully insulated, double glazed houses. Question is does H1 give extra value? (because it clearly comes at not insignificant cost) General feedback is that the code should be more variable around the country – H1 will be more valuable in colder areas than warmer ones – Northland v Southland for example.
The costs I’m told include extra materials – bigger timber framing and trusses (6×2), heavier timber means more use of equipment to stand up frames, and thermally broken windows (considerably more expensive I’m told). If anyone knows different then please say so – or confirm that is correct.
Additional costs I was told by one firm in the order of $35-40K, another said $500 per sq metre, a third said $10K extra for joinery alone, Those costs of course are directly part of delivering the house. Another example based on a specific design from a range said $20K added for the windows, $17K for the insulation, and then added cost for the extra timber.
Interested in your feedback – especially anyone involved in construction.
Lovely to see you back here Andy – hope you are enjoying your new job ! I’ll reply more fully to this in a new post, coming up soon.
Righto Andy
The one thing that strikes a lot of visitors is how individual our houses are here – bespoke and badly insulated
The way to drop costs is obviously bulk construction dropping overheads
Who makes everything cheaper and in bulk? China and Vietnam
So a future where set designs are accepted by councils and manufactured in remotely monitored factories in Asia then shipped over as complete wall sections and assembled by crane onsite can solve housing at least up to 4 stories and probably beyond given decent access
Pieces of the puzzle on the way will be NZ efforts to build modular houses in hand with NZ efforts to build standard units say windows – imagine the cost drop if council approved standard sizes and designs of windows that could be made in bulk rather than individually
If a manufacturer in Wiri and Chch could make sections of houses complete down to windows and interior linings then ship them around and hi-ab them all into place then all you need is roof sections on top
It just becomes a design and co-ordination issue after that
60 – I’m sure that you are right, that we COULD import prefab houses from China and Vietnam – but I really don’t want to. I honestly feel that it would be a total cop out if we import everything in NZ – we already do import nearly everything, but I really want us to build our own houses, because so much of our industry is involved in this – once we import everything, then all we will be is sheep farmers and grape growers and we may as well shoot ourselves. We have to have SOMETHING to do in NZ.
I agree that we should make them here
The Mowbrays think so too
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/watch-behind-the-scenes-of-new-global-house-business-zuru-tech/LZPTR27WXBFZZOJC4SSADFMU7E/#google_vignette
but I still prefer the Nirvana system
What I was really trying to get to was pointing to the trend towards digitisation in the construction industry
The barriers between the invention/drawing/client brief and the execution of that plan on the ground are being steadily eliminated by teh interwebs
If something becomes mass-produced then mass producers undercut the market hence the China reference
Smart and nimble local designers / constructors will design using the benefits of BIM and modelling the build to check for solar gain / thermal performance etc then select a set of
pre-approved wall panel sections with the appropriate distribution of services for the build (you’re stuffed if you want to move a plug so choose wisely) and send the order to the factory which will turn out a package which is just an upscale version of prenail framing when it comes down to it
Crane it all in, bolt it down and together, get the sparkies and plumbers to do the connections then assemble your roof from your partially assembled roof modules and screw it all together
Locations by wifi on the Tradies phones with proximity sensors detecting which part of the plan their camera is looking at and what should be where is being worked on by NZ software people or so I have heard (I guess it’s like Pokemon for building)
Greenfield new builds will probably stick with concrete slab foundations for a while IMO
Further into the mass-produced future, people will input their desired site to the algorithm and spec their budget/ how many floors/ OMG mud room, all the rest of it and then the AI will suggest views of the local scenery from the master bedroom among a myriad of other possibilities and customers will order them like the little boxes of ticky tacky that the Socialist replacement teacher we had in primary school one day warned us about
Actually Nemo, you may need to go high end in future, the AI might be coming for you..
Meanwhile I’m still trying to get an intelligible answer out of the eedjits at Aecom – sigh
At least I got glass in to the front of New World Hutt finally after that storm damage
60 – thank you and I absolutely agree with you about bespoke design – so lets follow this through.
The companies I spoke with are all in the multi-build business, they may have range of designs or just one or two – especially for smaller structures (usually up to 60 sq m).
Many told me they build in factory situations – ‘mass produced approach’ (noting our small market size so a ‘mass’ may not be that many.
you are right about bulk consenting – if a company produces 200 units a year – all the same then one consent should suffice for all of them (and I understand that is being done – though does not sound to be universal, and Councils at times seem to be determined that they have to inspect something and not rely on another Council having consented another (identical) building. So a few things seem not quite right yet. Obviously the foundations and service connections will be to a degree bespoke given different topography/ground conditions etc – so will still need consenting, but you are right we should be able to reduce the consenting cost.
Harder for overseas builds when the whole thing turns up fully clad etc. Not unresolvable, but I agree with Nemo that we should be able to build here!
Insulation – again I agree – to a degree, but as I said the comparison with H1 is not with the older pre insulation houses (cold – unless owners have invested in addressing this – do I dare say as many inner residential owners have in Wellington – unrecognised by some lobby groups) but the comparison is with new houses meeting the standards applying up until November last year.
The point remains that – all other things being equal – the H1 house will be more expensive – considerably more in the opinion of many companies I spoke with – than the modern house insulated to the standard as it was until November 2023. According to them that impacts directly on the cost of housing. Look forward to any other comment. Thanks 60 and Nemo.
If I could just jump in here, and that is that any extra cost of the increased insulation will generate benefits, and the relationship between those two factors is a measure of the net benefit to us all. It’s an unfortunate fact of life that costs are now and benefits are in the future, but long-term benefits rely on short-term costs (hence why things like benefit/cost ratios exist), though increased insulation should generate benefits at least in terms of reduced heating bills fairly quickly.
Builders will give one side of the story, but there is another one that has to be considered. So what’s being done in that respect? I’m not hearing a lot about that in this discussion.
Hi Andy
Agreed re the “one size fits all” – case in point is the units between Constable and Newtown Ave immediately above People’s coffee
Same plan repeated all over the show
It would be ideal if we as a country could achieve the “same but different” type of differentiation where we have good warm weathertight designs (with eaves FFS)
rather than the cookie cutter townhouse apporoach but I may be too optimistic
On the insulation front I agree that the upfront cost should be seen as an asset worth paying for, as Betterbee points out
Costing out a childcare centre a couple of years ago the external framing was 90mm as non-residential (from memory ext walls Resi are all 140 these days?- don’t quote me)and I was told to look at wool insulation
Twice the price which was expected but I found it interesting that the wool insulation could not achieve the R rating specced in a 90mm wall
God we’ve gotta find something to do with wool beyond carpet – my neighbour shears as a cost now and purely for animal welfare reasons
Maybe trap it between layers of mesh fabric and staple it to the joists of State Houses for underfloor insulation?
Just don’t let Kainga Ora run it, they’ll blow money and do sod-all
Or That Road to zero bollocks – was that road from a million bucks to zero?
This is the dilemma – money and the private sector may well be made of a base alchemy which commercially converts all that is good to cold hard profit but also the last govt (and all governments to one degree or another) have taken our tax dollars and pissed them up against the wall for three quarters of a gnat’s dick
I think that the solution may well lie somewhere near the fact that Singapore elites see the government as the best game in town to work for – they get paid accordingly too
The road to a top flight civil service does not include voluntary redundancies however – that way you just get rid of the ones who can get a job and you are left with the driftwood
Oh no I just asked for big government
I’m obviously unwell, send whisky
https://www.liquorlegends.co.nz/?p_url=glenfiddich-18-year-old-700ml
“trouble is, I’ve never seen them for sale in NZ. Do you know of a supplier Mr Filth?”
When we were still living in Raglan and thought about building a home there, we found a company there that was building these windows that we are used to.
Of course that would not scale to a mass-market.
But there are larger suppliers now it seems.
Search for “tilt and turn windows” and you find e.g.
https://www.optimalwindows.co.nz
https://www.kiwiwindows.co.nz/upvc-windows/tilt-and-turn-windows/
NYT Paywalled but interesting approach Sweden vs US housing permit legislation
People respond to incentives – if you want a different outcome, change the incentives
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/08/headway/how-an-american-dream-of-housing-became-a-reality-in-sweden.html