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	<title>Comments on: Wellington goes High Tech</title>
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	<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/</link>
	<description>A wide-angle view of architecture, urban design and life in Wellington</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:44:55 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Arthur</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4804</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4804</guid>
		<description>Yes, LAS, you are correct that this building is doing a fine job of being ordinary. However I think there is still a distinction between the poor quality design, and good quality design - and also between poor quality construction, and good quality construction.  There is nothing to stop a building being ordinary, but still good in its level of detailing and the ability of the contractors to carry that out. 

Here however, I tend to agree that something has gone tragically wrong. From the planning of the units, which is on the small side, and unfortunately looking out at either the roof of the brothel, the blank side of the carpark (the better units here would have to be the east side over Marion St) - to the detailing of the Kingspan panels which appears to have been carried out in a, aaah, shall we say, haphazard manner? it certainly appears as though this building has had very little care taken over it. So I for one, while revelling in its ordinariness, really do think that somebody somewhere should be trying a lot harder with this project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, LAS, you are correct that this building is doing a fine job of being ordinary. However I think there is still a distinction between the poor quality design, and good quality design &#8211; and also between poor quality construction, and good quality construction.  There is nothing to stop a building being ordinary, but still good in its level of detailing and the ability of the contractors to carry that out. </p>
<p>Here however, I tend to agree that something has gone tragically wrong. From the planning of the units, which is on the small side, and unfortunately looking out at either the roof of the brothel, the blank side of the carpark (the better units here would have to be the east side over Marion St) &#8211; to the detailing of the Kingspan panels which appears to have been carried out in a, aaah, shall we say, haphazard manner? it certainly appears as though this building has had very little care taken over it. So I for one, while revelling in its ordinariness, really do think that somebody somewhere should be trying a lot harder with this project.</p>
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		<title>By: LAS</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4790</link>
		<dc:creator>LAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 06:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4790</guid>
		<description>IMHO, this building is &#039;ordinary&#039;.  It displays no architectural brilliance, and I doubt that any is going to magically appear when it&#039;s finished.  

Yet it appears that many readers seem to object to that ordinary-ness.  

It is not in a prominent location that demands architectural spectacularity.  It is not a corner site, at the termination of a vista or defining the edge of a public space of city-wide significance.  (Sorry Cobblestone Park, but you&#039;re not that yet!) It is outside the Cuba Street Heritage Area.  

In between the buildings that knock us over with their brilliance, innovation or  memorability, surely we need good hard-working buildings that perform their function without competing for prominence? The &#039;background&#039; buildings...???

I&#039;d rather have my attention captured by either the Architecture School over the road or the green hillside of Mt Vic terminating the vista along Vivian Street (eastwards, anyway) than something on this site.  

I&#039;m not saying this building is good, but can&#039;t we just let it get on with being ordinary?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMHO, this building is &#8216;ordinary&#8217;.  It displays no architectural brilliance, and I doubt that any is going to magically appear when it&#8217;s finished.  </p>
<p>Yet it appears that many readers seem to object to that ordinary-ness.  </p>
<p>It is not in a prominent location that demands architectural spectacularity.  It is not a corner site, at the termination of a vista or defining the edge of a public space of city-wide significance.  (Sorry Cobblestone Park, but you&#8217;re not that yet!) It is outside the Cuba Street Heritage Area.  </p>
<p>In between the buildings that knock us over with their brilliance, innovation or  memorability, surely we need good hard-working buildings that perform their function without competing for prominence? The &#8216;background&#8217; buildings&#8230;???</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather have my attention captured by either the Architecture School over the road or the green hillside of Mt Vic terminating the vista along Vivian Street (eastwards, anyway) than something on this site.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying this building is good, but can&#8217;t we just let it get on with being ordinary?</p>
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		<title>By: mobsta</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4739</link>
		<dc:creator>mobsta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4739</guid>
		<description>Street Address: 140 - 144 Vivian Street, Te Aro 

Building Name: Duel on Vivian development 

Description: Duel on Vivian development at full height in September 2008. To be a 6-storey building including the ground level. Builders; Hawkins Constructions. Architects; Archaus. Formerly the site of twin two-storey timber buildings and a single-storey building, built circa 1900 and demolished in 2005. 

Proposals: 6/08: Subdivision Consent for a unit title was approved in June 2008. 

Owner: Vivian Street Properties Ltd, 20 Falkirk Ave, Seatoun, Wellington 6003. Vivian Street Properties is directed by Kusum Paragji of Seatoun. It is owned by Pan&#039;s Trustee Ltd. Pan&#039;s Trustee is directed by Michael Chung of Roseneath and owned by Kusum Paragji of Seatoun. 

Sales History: Properties 21 (except for 96 sqm at the rear) and 24 were bought by Concrete Jungle Ltd and transferred to it in February 1987. Also in February 1987, Renouf Property Developments Ltd arranged to buy them. They were resold to Brougham Investments Ltd in September 1988. The transfers to Renouf and then to Brougham were registered on the same day in June 1989. Properties 21 (still without the 96 sqm at the rear) and 24 were bought by Pito-One Shell No 1 Ltd in August 1989. They were bought by Murray Burns in December 1991. They were auctioned in August 2000, not sold. Murray Burns bought the 96 sqm at the rear in March 2002 and the combined property was auctioned in August 2003; agent Bayleys. It was bought by Equal Investments Ltd for $880,000 in February 2004. It was bought by Vivian Street Properties Ltd in August 2004, also for $880,000; agent Bayleys. 

Street Frontages: 17.96m to Vivian Street. 

Site Area: 543 sqm 

Title Details: Pt lot 33 DP 582, lots 1-2 DP 5912; CTs 40D/424, 304/244, 304/245. Pt lot 32 DP 582; CT 460/133. 

This information was brought to you by the kind folk at Cityscope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Street Address: 140 &#8211; 144 Vivian Street, Te Aro </p>
<p>Building Name: Duel on Vivian development </p>
<p>Description: Duel on Vivian development at full height in September 2008. To be a 6-storey building including the ground level. Builders; Hawkins Constructions. Architects; Archaus. Formerly the site of twin two-storey timber buildings and a single-storey building, built circa 1900 and demolished in 2005. </p>
<p>Proposals: 6/08: Subdivision Consent for a unit title was approved in June 2008. </p>
<p>Owner: Vivian Street Properties Ltd, 20 Falkirk Ave, Seatoun, Wellington 6003. Vivian Street Properties is directed by Kusum Paragji of Seatoun. It is owned by Pan&#8217;s Trustee Ltd. Pan&#8217;s Trustee is directed by Michael Chung of Roseneath and owned by Kusum Paragji of Seatoun. </p>
<p>Sales History: Properties 21 (except for 96 sqm at the rear) and 24 were bought by Concrete Jungle Ltd and transferred to it in February 1987. Also in February 1987, Renouf Property Developments Ltd arranged to buy them. They were resold to Brougham Investments Ltd in September 1988. The transfers to Renouf and then to Brougham were registered on the same day in June 1989. Properties 21 (still without the 96 sqm at the rear) and 24 were bought by Pito-One Shell No 1 Ltd in August 1989. They were bought by Murray Burns in December 1991. They were auctioned in August 2000, not sold. Murray Burns bought the 96 sqm at the rear in March 2002 and the combined property was auctioned in August 2003; agent Bayleys. It was bought by Equal Investments Ltd for $880,000 in February 2004. It was bought by Vivian Street Properties Ltd in August 2004, also for $880,000; agent Bayleys. </p>
<p>Street Frontages: 17.96m to Vivian Street. </p>
<p>Site Area: 543 sqm </p>
<p>Title Details: Pt lot 33 DP 582, lots 1-2 DP 5912; CTs 40D/424, 304/244, 304/245. Pt lot 32 DP 582; CT 460/133. </p>
<p>This information was brought to you by the kind folk at Cityscope.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4736</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4736</guid>
		<description>60mPa (does that mean you&#039;re a hard man, or is it an expression of density?) i think i always suspected that it was not the final solution for the building - but hey, you know, there&#039;s always room for a last minute variation.....

electric - you&#039;re completely right about the size of this building - its good to see some buildings in the 5-6 storey range, as opposed to the 9-16 range that are being proposed elsewhere. Its just the quality levels that need to be higher, not the rooftops. Of course, this one was planned to be higher at first, but I believe it may have been knocked back a little to protect the sunlight angles into Cobblestone Park at lunchtime. 

Forest and Bird has been vacant for over a year now - seems long enough for anyone to get a set of working drawings out, especially for something as repetitive as Te Aro Towers.  But we&#039;re watching Watermark&#039;s site with interest too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>60mPa (does that mean you&#8217;re a hard man, or is it an expression of density?) i think i always suspected that it was not the final solution for the building &#8211; but hey, you know, there&#8217;s always room for a last minute variation&#8230;..</p>
<p>electric &#8211; you&#8217;re completely right about the size of this building &#8211; its good to see some buildings in the 5-6 storey range, as opposed to the 9-16 range that are being proposed elsewhere. Its just the quality levels that need to be higher, not the rooftops. Of course, this one was planned to be higher at first, but I believe it may have been knocked back a little to protect the sunlight angles into Cobblestone Park at lunchtime. </p>
<p>Forest and Bird has been vacant for over a year now &#8211; seems long enough for anyone to get a set of working drawings out, especially for something as repetitive as Te Aro Towers.  But we&#8217;re watching Watermark&#8217;s site with interest too.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4731</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4731</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that.  That&#039;s the great thing about blogs - everyone is keen to help each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that.  That&#8217;s the great thing about blogs &#8211; everyone is keen to help each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Spleeen</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4730</link>
		<dc:creator>Spleeen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4730</guid>
		<description>Maximus, No I&#039;m not with Archaus, or Merge or Hawkins and no I&#039;m not the developer.
And yes you did get it wrong you are saying that Merge are the developers and they are not, I just feel you need to check your facts a little better.

Also it always amazes me that people will blog because it&#039;s free to everyone to express their opinion, but as soon as anyone does they are attacked and hunted down as though if you knew who I was it would validate or invalidate my opinions?

&quot;Mobsta - can you use your CityScope connection to find out who owns the site?&quot;

Ahh so now your going to do your homework?

Let me help you out a little after you get through the red tape, structures and entities the developer is Ash Pama.
The development was originally marketed by Richmastery then it was with Rene Morbey for a while and now Merge Property are marketing some of the final units.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maximus, No I&#8217;m not with Archaus, or Merge or Hawkins and no I&#8217;m not the developer.<br />
And yes you did get it wrong you are saying that Merge are the developers and they are not, I just feel you need to check your facts a little better.</p>
<p>Also it always amazes me that people will blog because it&#8217;s free to everyone to express their opinion, but as soon as anyone does they are attacked and hunted down as though if you knew who I was it would validate or invalidate my opinions?</p>
<p>&#8220;Mobsta &#8211; can you use your CityScope connection to find out who owns the site?&#8221;</p>
<p>Ahh so now your going to do your homework?</p>
<p>Let me help you out a little after you get through the red tape, structures and entities the developer is Ash Pama.<br />
The development was originally marketed by Richmastery then it was with Rene Morbey for a while and now Merge Property are marketing some of the final units.</p>
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		<title>By: electric</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4728</link>
		<dc:creator>electric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4728</guid>
		<description>Wellington needs more of this SIZE &#039;infill&#039; apartment buildings and less of the 15 storey behemoths IMHO, especially in the dodgier lowrise side of Te Aro.

While not a stunning architectural wonder, if well constructed and pleasant to live in, then it won&#039;t detract from the streetscape. It&#039;s reasonalby tasteful and is not out of scale with its surroundings. 

Hopefully they will start building something on that old Forest and Bird site, it seems it might be the next Swan Lane at this rate. Not to mention the Watermark site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wellington needs more of this SIZE &#8216;infill&#8217; apartment buildings and less of the 15 storey behemoths IMHO, especially in the dodgier lowrise side of Te Aro.</p>
<p>While not a stunning architectural wonder, if well constructed and pleasant to live in, then it won&#8217;t detract from the streetscape. It&#8217;s reasonalby tasteful and is not out of scale with its surroundings. </p>
<p>Hopefully they will start building something on that old Forest and Bird site, it seems it might be the next Swan Lane at this rate. Not to mention the Watermark site.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4724</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4724</guid>
		<description>Mobsta - can you use your CityScope connection to find out who owns the site?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mobsta &#8211; can you use your CityScope connection to find out who owns the site?</p>
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		<title>By: Maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4723</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4723</guid>
		<description>But no, of course not - you couldn&#039;t possibly be the developer with a statement like:

&quot;Ah and now your telling me that I think its awful, well no I don’t I’m really not a fan of it, it’s bland and boring but then it’s also not a public art work. But then I didn’t buy one and wasn’t involved in the design or marketing and have the ability to quite easily ignore it.&quot;

Although of course you could be if you wanted to blame it all on the architects...

So then I like the second part of your Spleen venting even more:

&quot;But back to you so your saying that because you have a nice looking site and a readership in blog format you don’t have to tell the truth? Are you not even a little bit red faced for getting this so wrong?&quot;

Obviously not. Fish don&#039;t have red faces. But my mouth is agape with shock and mock outrage at being accused of not telling the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But no, of course not &#8211; you couldn&#8217;t possibly be the developer with a statement like:</p>
<p>&#8220;Ah and now your telling me that I think its awful, well no I don’t I’m really not a fan of it, it’s bland and boring but then it’s also not a public art work. But then I didn’t buy one and wasn’t involved in the design or marketing and have the ability to quite easily ignore it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Although of course you could be if you wanted to blame it all on the architects&#8230;</p>
<p>So then I like the second part of your Spleen venting even more:</p>
<p>&#8220;But back to you so your saying that because you have a nice looking site and a readership in blog format you don’t have to tell the truth? Are you not even a little bit red faced for getting this so wrong?&#8221;</p>
<p>Obviously not. Fish don&#8217;t have red faces. But my mouth is agape with shock and mock outrage at being accused of not telling the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4722</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/wellington-goes-high-tech/#comment-4722</guid>
		<description>Spleen - I&#039;m quite perplexed at what &quot;cobblers&quot; you think I am writing. Evidently you think I&#039;ve got something so wrong - au contraire - as others have pointed out, it is marketed by Merge, and so who am i to try to argue with that. However...

Merge&#039;s own marketing blurb says: &quot;Following in the successful footsteps of the popular Monvie Apartments, Duel on Vivian will be only the second building to be completed in Wellington entirely in the dual key configuration.&quot;  

Hmmm.  That makes me think.  Did I strike a nerve? No comments here from Merge (nor ArcHaus, Silvester Clark, or Hawkins yet). 

Perhaps then, you&#039;re getting a bit sensitive over this because...   am i getting warmer if I was to say that you are the developer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spleen &#8211; I&#8217;m quite perplexed at what &#8220;cobblers&#8221; you think I am writing. Evidently you think I&#8217;ve got something so wrong &#8211; au contraire &#8211; as others have pointed out, it is marketed by Merge, and so who am i to try to argue with that. However&#8230;</p>
<p>Merge&#8217;s own marketing blurb says: &#8220;Following in the successful footsteps of the popular Monvie Apartments, Duel on Vivian will be only the second building to be completed in Wellington entirely in the dual key configuration.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Hmmm.  That makes me think.  Did I strike a nerve? No comments here from Merge (nor ArcHaus, Silvester Clark, or Hawkins yet). </p>
<p>Perhaps then, you&#8217;re getting a bit sensitive over this because&#8230;   am i getting warmer if I was to say that you are the developer?</p>
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