<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Supreme and Enduring Awards</title>
	<atom:link href="http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/</link>
	<description>A wide-angle view of architecture, urban design and life in Wellington</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:14:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: M-D</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1117</link>
		<dc:creator>M-D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1117</guid>
		<description>&quot;Complete surmisal on my behalf&quot; - and such is how the myths of architectural history (or any other) become embedded in the dominant narratives...

&quot;But on the other hand - is there any evidence that Plishke ever deigned to lessen his design ideals?&quot; - Yep - His local houses realised in timber rather than reinforced concrete, and the insufficient detailing to accomodate this constructional shift... I really don&#039;t understand the post-humous protection racket that Plishke seems to have attracted??? Do we still fall under the sway of the visiting European Master trope?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Complete surmisal on my behalf&#8221; &#8211; and such is how the myths of architectural history (or any other) become embedded in the dominant narratives&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;But on the other hand &#8211; is there any evidence that Plishke ever deigned to lessen his design ideals?&#8221; &#8211; Yep &#8211; His local houses realised in timber rather than reinforced concrete, and the insufficient detailing to accomodate this constructional shift&#8230; I really don&#8217;t understand the post-humous protection racket that Plishke seems to have attracted??? Do we still fall under the sway of the visiting European Master trope?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rondo</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1108</link>
		<dc:creator>rondo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1108</guid>
		<description>Maximus - the book i presume you&#039;re talking about (August Sarnitz and Eva B Ottillinger&#039;s &quot;Ernst Plishke - the Complete Works&quot;), is somewhat circumspect on the subject.

Although the book refers to it as &quot;Plishke&#039;s best-known building in New Zealand is Massey House&quot; and notes Nikolaus Pevsner praising it thus &quot;Of work of the last few years Mr Plishke&#039;s Massey House at Wellington is an exception in scale as well as careful detailing.&quot; it notes that Cedric Firth was probably responsible for getting the project into the office and also notes that &quot;There is no surviving documentation of who worked on which aspects of the design&quot;. 

So no definite ruling either one way or another whether Firth or Plishke was the key designer - as always, these things involve more than one architect, especially for a building that size. And no information on who designed the extension either, except the office of &quot;Firth and Plishke&quot;.

But a possible surmisal - as the much derided extension to Massey House has been unliked by most architectural commentaters since it was built, then perhaps if Plishke did do the initial building, it may be unlikely that he would have wanted to spoil his masterpiece with the extension?

Perhaps we should forestall any similar discussion over Conservation House in future years: so, who was the Architect on the DoC project? Is it Stuart Gardyne? Or should we be lauding someone else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maximus &#8211; the book i presume you&#8217;re talking about (August Sarnitz and Eva B Ottillinger&#8217;s &#8220;Ernst Plishke &#8211; the Complete Works&#8221;), is somewhat circumspect on the subject.</p>
<p>Although the book refers to it as &#8220;Plishke&#8217;s best-known building in New Zealand is Massey House&#8221; and notes Nikolaus Pevsner praising it thus &#8220;Of work of the last few years Mr Plishke&#8217;s Massey House at Wellington is an exception in scale as well as careful detailing.&#8221; it notes that Cedric Firth was probably responsible for getting the project into the office and also notes that &#8220;There is no surviving documentation of who worked on which aspects of the design&#8221;. </p>
<p>So no definite ruling either one way or another whether Firth or Plishke was the key designer &#8211; as always, these things involve more than one architect, especially for a building that size. And no information on who designed the extension either, except the office of &#8220;Firth and Plishke&#8221;.</p>
<p>But a possible surmisal &#8211; as the much derided extension to Massey House has been unliked by most architectural commentaters since it was built, then perhaps if Plishke did do the initial building, it may be unlikely that he would have wanted to spoil his masterpiece with the extension?</p>
<p>Perhaps we should forestall any similar discussion over Conservation House in future years: so, who was the Architect on the DoC project? Is it Stuart Gardyne? Or should we be lauding someone else?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1056</link>
		<dc:creator>maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 03:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1056</guid>
		<description>Known? Not at all.  Complete surmisal on my behalf - most naughty i am sure. But on the other hand -  is there any evidence that Plishke ever deigned to lessen his design ideals? After all, he was the type to pack his bags and go back to Vienna rather than put up with the perceived indignity of having to submit his work to the NZIA, an organisation as snooty then as it is today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Known? Not at all.  Complete surmisal on my behalf &#8211; most naughty i am sure. But on the other hand &#8211;  is there any evidence that Plishke ever deigned to lessen his design ideals? After all, he was the type to pack his bags and go back to Vienna rather than put up with the perceived indignity of having to submit his work to the NZIA, an organisation as snooty then as it is today.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: M-D</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1055</link>
		<dc:creator>M-D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 02:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1055</guid>
		<description>Forgive my ignorance, but is it &#039;known&#039; that it was Firth that executed Plishke&#039;s design rather than the pragmatism being forced upon Plishke hiimself? 

Even so, I guess my point still stands - I suspect that much of the recognition is for the Plishke&#039;s originally conceived building, which never physically existed (if you discount that image)... I think that many think that the image is a depiction of the building as it was first realised, and that it was later modifications that saw it lose this purity and precision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive my ignorance, but is it &#8216;known&#8217; that it was Firth that executed Plishke&#8217;s design rather than the pragmatism being forced upon Plishke hiimself? </p>
<p>Even so, I guess my point still stands &#8211; I suspect that much of the recognition is for the Plishke&#8217;s originally conceived building, which never physically existed (if you discount that image)&#8230; I think that many think that the image is a depiction of the building as it was first realised, and that it was later modifications that saw it lose this purity and precision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1054</link>
		<dc:creator>maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 02:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1054</guid>
		<description>Poor old Firth? Not necessarily so. By all accounts Mr Plishke was a bit of a perfectionist, with a high sense of his own ability. Admittedly, he may have been perfectly right, as he was years ahead in terms of design from the rest of his New Zealand colleagues, but then again no one likes a smart arse, lest of all one with a germanic accent. I suspect that Mr Firth may just have been more of a pragmatist, and perhaps relented on some of the details to keep the cost down and the client happy. 

Of course, only those with the supreme egotistical outlook and the power to match that can get away with such an attitude - witness our modern day Diva Zaha Hadid (rumoured to apparently write a column for the Arch Centre, which seems unlikely).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor old Firth? Not necessarily so. By all accounts Mr Plishke was a bit of a perfectionist, with a high sense of his own ability. Admittedly, he may have been perfectly right, as he was years ahead in terms of design from the rest of his New Zealand colleagues, but then again no one likes a smart arse, lest of all one with a germanic accent. I suspect that Mr Firth may just have been more of a pragmatist, and perhaps relented on some of the details to keep the cost down and the client happy. </p>
<p>Of course, only those with the supreme egotistical outlook and the power to match that can get away with such an attitude &#8211; witness our modern day Diva Zaha Hadid (rumoured to apparently write a column for the Arch Centre, which seems unlikely).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: M-D</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1048</link>
		<dc:creator>M-D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1048</guid>
		<description>Poor old Firth huh? The Plischke book would say that though, wouldn&#039;t it? His is one reputation that seems to have a lot invested in it (I&#039;m thinking the Dixon Street Flats authorship debate also)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor old Firth huh? The Plischke book would say that though, wouldn&#8217;t it? His is one reputation that seems to have a lot invested in it (I&#8217;m thinking the Dixon Street Flats authorship debate also)&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: maximus</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1047</link>
		<dc:creator>maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1047</guid>
		<description>&quot;The initial promise of beautiful European precision&quot; perhaps by Plishke, and the &quot;something far less pristine, and almost banal&quot; was by Firth, as far as it seems to be (un)said in the Plishke book. Certainly Firth was responsible for the extension.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The initial promise of beautiful European precision&#8221; perhaps by Plishke, and the &#8220;something far less pristine, and almost banal&#8221; was by Firth, as far as it seems to be (un)said in the Plishke book. Certainly Firth was responsible for the extension.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: M-D</title>
		<link>http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1044</link>
		<dc:creator>M-D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 23:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeofthefish.org/supreme-and-enduring-awards/#comment-1044</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately Massey House never looked as elegant as the photocollage that is most often used to illustrate it. The initial promise of beautiful European precision promised in the above image was realised by something far less pristine, and almost banal by comparison... and then they went and added that extension...

Nevertheless, it deserves a mention for being one of the first reinforced-concrete/fully-glazed curtain wall structures in New Zealand, and is significant for that reason - and also as a symbol of NZ finally attaining &#039;Modernity&#039; (although MoW projects had pushed that boat out for some years prior to Massey House). That this type of building was run-of-the-mill overseas since the end of WWII (albeit on a much larger scale) is beside the point (isn&#039;t it?). 

Anyway, fwiw here is a link to images of the building as it looked not long after it was completed: http://media.tumblr.com/Ryau6dz2W9h7g4wiLvSP64y8_500.jpg

(Source: Clark, Justine, &amp; Paul Walker. &quot;Looking for the Local: Architecture and the New Zealand Modern.&quot; Wellington: VUP, 2000: 147)

I just wonder whether the building would be so &#039;revered&#039; if these were the dominant representations of it...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately Massey House never looked as elegant as the photocollage that is most often used to illustrate it. The initial promise of beautiful European precision promised in the above image was realised by something far less pristine, and almost banal by comparison&#8230; and then they went and added that extension&#8230;</p>
<p>Nevertheless, it deserves a mention for being one of the first reinforced-concrete/fully-glazed curtain wall structures in New Zealand, and is significant for that reason &#8211; and also as a symbol of NZ finally attaining &#8216;Modernity&#8217; (although MoW projects had pushed that boat out for some years prior to Massey House). That this type of building was run-of-the-mill overseas since the end of WWII (albeit on a much larger scale) is beside the point (isn&#8217;t it?). </p>
<p>Anyway, fwiw here is a link to images of the building as it looked not long after it was completed: <a href="http://media.tumblr.com/Ryau6dz2W9h7g4wiLvSP64y8_500.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://media.tumblr.com/Ryau6dz2W9h7g4wiLvSP64y8_500.jpg</a></p>
<p>(Source: Clark, Justine, &amp; Paul Walker. &#8220;Looking for the Local: Architecture and the New Zealand Modern.&#8221; Wellington: VUP, 2000: 147)</p>
<p>I just wonder whether the building would be so &#8216;revered&#8217; if these were the dominant representations of it&#8230;?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

